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noodle
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PostSubject: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:31 pm

With regards to some things that were said on *THIS POST* I want to bring back Krug, he in my opinion, was one of the people who kept the forums fun, I loved reading Kruggly's posts because they were very entertaining, and in this time we can't really afford to have people being banned.

Our resident Asian summed it up pretty nicely.
Cakebread wrote:
#5 Learn to cooperate and bite the bullet,
We've had 4 out of 5 veterans that were banned
over things that i thought were petty and stupid.
To be frank, I think that we need to put drama and shit aside for the community's sake.
It may have been disrespectful and backhanded and you may think they did harm to the community,
they had their role and their positive points to other people.
We live in a small pool of potential members,
we need to put side grudges, grievances, past incidents and intentions aside.
I swear, its like the veterans can make the game "Jagged Alliance: I'll just drop my duty to the community to start a shitpost fight"

You may hate each other but you need each other for things to pan out.
I DON'T GIVE HALF A SINGLE SHIT OF
WHAT WAS SAID, DONE, IMPLIED OR INSULTED ABOUT,
THERE IS A REASON WHY QUANTITY IS A QUALITY OF ITS OWN.
IF WE HAD A BIG ASS COMMUNITY LIKE EGO THEN
WE COULD BAN SOME PEOPLE BUT
WE ARE LIVING IN A SMALL WORLD WITH SO FEW PEOPLE
WE NOW FACE UNCERTAINTY BECAUSE OF LACK OF ACTIVITY
WHICH WOULDN'T APPEAR SO WITH MORE MEMBERS.

I sometimes think I'm one of the only people in this community
who can put aside grudges and all that shit for the sake of this community despite my Japanese upbringing.

The only people i would ban are people who relentlessly shit on people and grind people out new or old.
For example, the impression and opinion of Mack was that he was an abrasive douche. To my experience he was a constant dick wad and he got banned for extreme elitism which was okay but there should have been a last chance to change that behavior.

I also think that the reason why Kruggly was banned was fairly petty. It was only a bit of fun. Zaku summed this part fairly nicely.
Zaku wrote:
Ok, I'd like to point something out here.

Olden is a small, comfortable community. Admit it. We all like Olden because we all know each other, it's simple, and we can have fun with little to no bureaucracy. Olden has become a home to many of us.

Pointless threads that only spark wildfires this community was never meant to endure. We're all here to have fun and as far as I know we've had fun. If we're having fun then what's the problem?
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Pat
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:56 pm

Just to clarify ; Krug and Zaku were unbanned at the behest of Kain when he took over the community at my request. The reason they're banned now is not for the Markka business, which is what that quote by Zaku references. They were banned because they made public some -very- personal information that was given, in confidence, to Kruggly, and then immediately spread and used to badmouth and ridicule Kain. It was deleted quickly, and they were banned, which is why most of you don't know about it. I won't say what was said, but it had to do with some very personal views held by Kain, including religious ones, as well as the subject of Kain's mental health, which was also ridiculed.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:20 pm

No, good and simple.
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thorogoodd
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:46 pm

What Pat said.
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Venom OPS
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:50 pm

Not to mention their continuous attempts to infiltrate and muck up anything aeria. Including the gay porn banners. It's staying the way it is. Krug had his good parts, and was a great roleplayer and contributor, but in reality, the trio cared more for fooling around and causing drama than roleplaying.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:07 pm

While what Krug did say and commit against this community is quite insulting to the players, the administration, and it the community itself, he has promised not to start this again. While I remain skeptical about this agreement, I can only hope that his word holds true.

In this agreement he has promised to, he has said he will not "start shit" or attack people unless heavily provoked to do so. I will stake my reputation with the community on Krug and ask that he return under this promise but be immediately exiled if he breaks it.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:25 pm



End of story, thread locked.

Edit: Thread unlocked at Pat's request but I wouldn't bother wasting your time posting. He's not coming back.
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Rutabega
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:41 pm

By the way, Krug Zaku and Jaque also once got into a section of the library that wasn't locked to guests and filled it with spam/profanity towards Olden's members and administration and various other bullshit.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:12 pm

While I would not be so kind as BooM to stake my own reputation on the unbanning of Krug based upon what I've seen as a result of his own actions that caused his banning, I would say that part of me, being very gullible mind you, is leaning towards giving him a single chance to prove he's changed. This would extend to him, and him alone, not Jacque nor Zaku.

The reason I don't extend this to Jacque is that i don't know him, so all I can provide is hearsay, and I was informed that he was the one who mucked the Forum Title image. The reason I don't extend this to Zaku is for a hundred reasons, namely, every time I met him; he trolled, he flamed, he used his connections to loiter and fester about. Even more so, it was he who posted the material that Krug had kept, and had through his own action or inaction, let him obtain. Having actually read this material, and written a well worded, very strongly worded reply to Zaku about what he'd done, only to be met with the deletion of the topic; I can say he doesn't deserve a second chance.

The only reason I extend this second chance to Krug is that he himself is a skilled roleplayer, a skilled lore writer, and the understanding that humans make mistakes. If he is willing to abandon the traits that caused him to be banned prior, then he would be a fine addition to the community; if not, well then, I guess my gullibility bites me int he ass.

Of course, It's up to those with the charge to properly judge and execute sentencing that have all the say in the matter; I won't move to contradict their opinion either. I will only state mine, and leave a record of how I feel.

May it be.

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Venom OPS
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:18 pm

I'm going to go out and simply state, it's too early to decide anything.

This isn't a eternal banishment, but it isn't something to be pushed off just because he wants in. it's a punishment, and as such, will remain as it.

It's impossible to deny his value as a member of the community and roleplayer, but the wounds are too fresh to prod at. Feel free to post your thought on this, but a punishment is a punishment.

It should also be noted Dom, that the entire community's opinions count. This isn't up to merely Kain or Ruta, it's a joint decision between the admins, and we'll all consider our members' views. As stated, this isn't being dropped, it just is a little to early for at least my liking.

Know that the administrative team isn't abandoning the prospect of an unban, and it will be discussed. Along with other ways to improve the community and such.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:28 pm

BooM wrote:
While what Krug did say and commit against this community is quite insulting to the players, the administration, and it the community itself, he has promised not to start this again. While I remain skeptical about this agreement, I can only hope that his word holds true.

In this agreement he has promised to, he has said he will not "start shit" or attack people unless heavily provoked to do so. I will stake my reputation with the community on Krug and ask that he return under this promise but be immediately exiled if he breaks it.


I stake my reputation and honor with in the community on this promise. Do not take my words lightly or you gravely insult my devotion to olden. I've spent alot of time in Olden, I constantly check the forums, has stayed despite the time where things look abandoned and have estranged my self away from my real friends and twin brother to be with you guys.

Krug cares about Olden more than I do.

Krug will adhere to this promise given our stakes on our reputation.
Krug will no doubt adhere given that my honor and reputation is important to me.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:31 pm

Venom OPS wrote:
It should also be noted Dom, that the entire community's opinions count. This isn't up to merely Kain or Ruta, it's a joint decision between the admins, and we'll all consider our members' views. As stated, this isn't being dropped, it just is a little to early for at least my liking.

My apologies, that's just me being sleepy, and reading into things a bit heavily or incorrectly due to my incoming sleep-time.

In any case, I agree wtih Venom, more time should pass, and the Unbanning of a player should carry with it weight, and not feel simple or a minor transitory setback; doing so would remove any educational value form the experience.

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Black Banana Party
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:38 pm

Cakebread wrote:



I stake my reputation and honor with in the community on this promise. Do not take my words lightly or you gravely insult my devotion to olden. I've spent alot of time in Olden, I constantly check the forums, has stayed despite the time where things look abandoned and have estranged my self away from my real friends and twin brother to be with you guys.

Krug cares about Olden more than I do.

Krug will adhere to this promise given our stakes on our reputation.
Krug will no doubt adhere given that my honor and reputation is important to me.


The fact that Krug did some bad shit a while back pretty much shows that he isn't as devoted as you say. If he had the balls to go and fuck up the forums and cause a whole dispute about leaving/being thrown out, then why the fuck are you so willing to just let him back in? I sure as hell don't like it when people just shit all over a community that's gone this far. If you're going to tolerate that and be a pawn, then be my guest, but I sure as hell won't offer my support to it. It's one thing to have a disagreement with the staff and leave on good terms, but that's not what happened, clearly not at all. I'm sure you've seen the forums and what happened, you all have. Krug didn't have any sympathy for you when you were all bad with him, why should you show any sympathy now. If you do it goes to show that you let pity or some sort of emotion run this community over a regular sense of what's right and what isn't. As previously stated, go ahead and be a pawn and simply let people walk over you and accept them with open arms, but if that's the case, I don't want any part of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:58 pm

I'm not sure how many of you read Zaku's post that got him and Krug re-banned, but it was insulting. It was a morally bankrupt attack on a community member's personal life and beliefs, and I fell they got what they deserved for trying to run a smear campaign.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:46 pm

Black Banana Party wrote:

The fact that Krug did some bad shit a while back pretty much shows that he isn't as devoted as you say. If he had the balls to go and fuck up the forums and cause a whole dispute about leaving/being thrown out, then why the fuck are you so willing to just let him back in?

Krug had conviction to do that, to show that Olden will falter under the policies it was running on because he wouldn't have been taken seriously otherwise.

When i first came to Olden i thought it was as close as perfection as it could be but when i learned more about the members, I saw that it was a sham barely held together. People talk of nostalgia and stories yet they hate each other and create drama that would be blown out of proportions.
I'm not saying to forgive him for the insults, I don't care if anyone forgives or not. I just don't want that to obscure people's view on what Olden needs. We can't deny that krug was a great rp and contributor.

Infact when he would get on, the time when he was on till he got off was when the server had the most population and rp during peak time.

Right now we need more people in our community, most people to my impression have doubts that things will work without action or change and that they don't have the drive they once did. I don't want Olden to die because people look at how much activity there is a in a small community then don't get on the server because of that.

Krug promised to not cause drama and shit, I will make sure none is created.
If everyone learned to bite the bullet then we wouldn't have this problem, Krug has learned how to do that from his exile.
If he reneges on that promise then I will be on that shit faster than anyone else would, its my reputation and honor as well as Boom's reputation that would be at stake.

I still stake my reputation and honor on that promise that Krug will adhere.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:07 pm

There is no justification for what he did, Asian.
As stated, we're giving it time. He hasn't learned from his "exile" because it's been barely a few months or so, and their persistence to damage the community didn't stop till a few weeks ago when all contacts were severed.
If we were to issue bans only to remove them a month or two later, it wouldn't serve any purpose. And to let him back just because he wants in again? There's no punishment in that.

As stated, we're giving it time. For what say I have in it, Krug isn't going to be coming back anytime soon. Near future, possibly, but not very soon.

The fact that you and BooM would put your reputation on the line is respected and does show the weight of your opinions, but it also displays the lack of knowledge you two have on the actions and colors that Krug shows. I won't go to talk badly of any member or former member of the community, but Krug has displayed sides of him that the administrative team have no desire to come in contact with again. Any inch you give, he will want more. I'm not about to let it become public what was done by Krug that violated every bit of common decency, but if you were in Kain's shoes, you'd have no reason to ever forgive the likes of him.

Leave it at that. Your opinions and beliefs hold value, but to preemptively un-ban Krug would ultimately lead to a detriment in the community.

I don't speak for all of the admins, but it is mutually agreed that this requires more time to consider, and an un-ban would make the administrative team appear as push-overs and not allow the punishment set in place to have its full impact.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:12 pm

Krug seems nice most of the time, but he has one hell of a mean streak.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:22 am

What Munroe said.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:28 am

I agree with Venom in that it is too early to unban him if we are going to. Punishment for his actions need to be longer before we can consider giving him a slap on the wrist.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:03 pm

oops looks like everyone forgot the other times zaku / krug were banned for doing shit and said sorry that they wouldnt do it agian and they did, haha better forget the MANY FUCKING TIMES that happened because obviously, them saying they wont and doing it multiple times over doesnt indicate that itd be done once more nopenope.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:59 am

citricalComborginator wrote:
oops looks like everyone forgot the other times zaku / krug were banned for doing shit and said sorry that they wouldnt do it agian and they did, haha better forget the MANY FUCKING TIMES that happened because obviously, them saying they wont and doing it multiple times over doesnt indicate that itd be done once more nopenope.

Looks like you forgot this doesn't address Zaku.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:10 am

thorogoodd wrote:
citricalComborginator wrote:
oops looks like everyone forgot the other times zaku / krug were banned for doing shit and said sorry that they wouldnt do it agian and they did, haha better forget the MANY FUCKING TIMES that happened because obviously, them saying they wont and doing it multiple times over doesnt indicate that itd be done once more nopenope.

Looks like you forgot this doesn't address Zaku.

citricalComborginator wrote:
oops looks like everyone forgot the other times zaku / krug were banned for doing shit and said sorry that they wouldnt do it agian and they did, haha better forget the MANY FUCKING TIMES that happened because obviously, them saying they wont and doing it multiple times over doesnt indicate that itd be done once more nopenope.

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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:54 am

thorogoodd wrote:
Looks like you forgot this doesn't address Zaku.

i was saying both zaku AND KRUG have done this so many fucking times its become quite a memorable thing about them. they are good friends and i can assure you, letting even krug back could end up in problems. i say this as a friend of theirs, and not just fucking whiny-bitch complaints.
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PostSubject: Re: Kruggly   Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:23 am

In my experience, krug is okay as long as Zaku and Jacque aren't around.
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