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Munroe
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PostSubject: The Mass   Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:47 pm




OOC Information
Spoiler:
 

Controlled Planets
Quote :
Tavlia
Spoiler:
 

Infection Level: 100%
The planet's entire biomass has been consumed. The surface and oceans are almost completely coated in the Mass, and all available forms of energy on the planet are being exploited.

Infrastructure
6 Monoliths: These structures are capable of producing the spacefaring vessels of the Mass. A continent-spanning root system funnels minerals, fuels, and organic materials to these miles-high towers, which use them to grow and launch ships from the "docks" at the very top.
Scanner Network: A sparse cloud of orbital platforms that envelops the planet, covered in living sensors to detect any signs of invasion.

Quote :
Unnamed Ocean World
Spoiler:
 

Infection Level: 100%
The entire planet has been wiped clean of all life except for the Mass. The oceans are teeming with Mass life forms and the surface is populated by humongous spires that extend deep into the crust and shoot high into the sky.

Infrastructure
4 Monoliths
Scanner Network

Quote :
GX9-11
Spoiler:
 

Infection Level: ?%
The planet, former home to the Sultanate of Zaa'nabar, seems to have been completely taken over. However, in remote areas, pockets of refugees and wildlife may still remain on this barren world.

Infrastructure
1 Monolith


Last edited by Munroe on Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:13 am; edited 19 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:25 am

The Mass now has control of two planets. Come to Sector 4, and join the perfect unity.

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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:06 pm

A massive update to the format and various other things. Enjoy.

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Marauder
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:07 pm

Ok I have a few problems with the Mass,

First off, I need clarification on what type of microorganism this is. Is it a virus? Is it Archaea? Is it bacteria? A multicellular parasite? This needs to be clarified because each type of microorganism functions radically differently and would create vastly different outcomes in functionality in space and in transmutations.

Secondly, how is the microorganism psychic and mutate at a whim? It would need some centralized intelligence to do this so suddenly to survive extreme radiation. There is no microorganism that can survive radiation, macro organisms can't even survive radiation, they can only be resistant because of their size and multitude of cells. Heavy radiation works like a shotgun slamming through the DNA, now you can deflect some of it, but if theres a lot of it, the cells will not be able to stop the radiation slamming through and hurting the DNA strands. Macro organisms have much more defense because they have a central conscious working together to stop the radiation, the microorganism has self preservation.

The point I'm getting at here is OOC, this needs some form of Gravemind or central intelligence manifested and transmitting orders, otherwise you'll end up with everything dying and not being able to pick out which mutation will save them due to the cacophony of so many cells attempting self preservation and picking at random which mutations will save it. This could work with process of elimination, but it wont be able to withstand the amount of radiation hitting it and adapt fast enough to save itself, it is completely impossible by any known science. Its Sci-FI I can tolerate its fast evolution and radiation resistance, because everything will die if exposed to radiation, and microorganisms die much more quickly i.e. instantaneously versus macro organisms. The only way I can accept this is if has something to coordinate it, and if you don't have that, you have thousands of stupid people in a room telling a man how to put the fire out on his body while he burns to death.

Thirdly, the definitions of their psychic power needs to be defined as well, if it affects brainwaves, I can just wear a helmet and you can't touch my guys because brainwaves don't travel that far. I'm willing to accept that telekinesis could affect shields with enough power, but my guys surrounded by metal are immune to any psychic manipulation if we're going by brainwaves. This also means if you have psychic energy, you can be affected by psychics. To even be able to sense brainwaves, the microorganisms would have to be centralized in its intelligence in some manifestation. Microorganisms do not have brains nor can they even sense brainwaves because they're such a small cellular structure. Even if you have millions of them, they still cannot form any brainwave patterns because they are still small simple cells.

The final thing I have a problem with is the amount of energy the Mass has to consume to be at all effective. Solar power isn't going to cut it, these things need to constantly consume or they will die out. They need to be constantly consuming energy to support all those extra cellular functions if they are microorganisms.

These are some serious problems with how the Mass operates and I'd really like to see more OOC detail on how they function otherwise.... It doesn't make any sense and they'd literally be committing constant suicide and die off within hours in game.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:42 pm

Marauder wrote:
Ok I have a few problems with the Mass,

First off, I need clarification on what type of microorganism this is. Is it a virus? Is it Archaea? Is it bacteria? A multicellular parasite? This needs to be clarified because each type of microorganism functions radically differently and would create vastly different outcomes in functionality in space and in transmutations.

I don't see why this needs to be clarified. If you want to know what the Mass is, you'll have to study it ICly.

Marauder wrote:
Secondly, how is the microorganism psychic and mutate at a whim? It would need some centralized intelligence to do this so suddenly to survive extreme radiation. There is no microorganism that can survive radiation, macro organisms can't even survive radiation, they can only be resistant because of their size and multitude of cells. Heavy radiation works like a shotgun slamming through the DNA, now you can deflect some of it, but if theres a lot of it, the cells will not be able to stop the radiation slamming through and hurting the DNA strands. Macro organisms have much more defense because they have a central conscious working together to stop the radiation, the microorganism has self preservation.

I've spent a very long time thinking about the question of rapid, directed mutation and I can tell you this. It's a rather messy explanation but it does make some sense. Once again though, you'll have to study the Mass to find out.

As for the rad-resistance, say hello to this guy, considered to be the most rad-resistant microorganism in the world. Wildlife on the planet Bihbulba would have to have cells with this capability otherwise it would be a barren wasteland instead of a lush jungle.

Marauder wrote:
Thirdly, the definitions of their psychic power needs to be defined as well, if it affects brainwaves, I can just wear a helmet and you can't touch my guys because brainwaves don't travel that far. I'm willing to accept that telekinesis could affect shields with enough power, but my guys surrounded by metal are immune to any psychic manipulation if we're going by brainwaves. This also means if you have psychic energy, you can be affected by psychics. To even be able to sense brainwaves, the microorganisms would have to be centralized in its intelligence in some manifestation. Microorganisms do not have brains nor can they even sense brainwaves because they're such a small cellular structure. Even if you have millions of them, they still cannot form any brainwave patterns because they are still small simple cells.

There's no "official" explanation for how psychic abilities work. I've assumed it's some sort of energy that operates under slightly different rules, and can be manipulated by those who are sensitive to it, i.e. psychics. This energy could penetrate most matter, interact with people's brain chemistry, and more noticeably affect other psychics. It's also universal, meaning that psychics of all races use the same type of psychic energy.

Marauder wrote:
The final thing I have a problem with is the amount of energy the Mass has to consume to be at all effective. Solar power isn't going to cut it, these things need to constantly consume or they will die out. They need to be constantly consuming energy to support all those extra cellular functions if they are microorganisms.

Munroe wrote:
Energy: Tech 2
The Mass can mimic the function of many technological devices by forming itself into specialized structures. Among other things, it is capable of processing solar, geothermal, Yirridium, fossil fuel, fission, and fusion power.

Marauder wrote:
These are some serious problems with how the Mass operates and I'd really like to see more OOC detail on how they function otherwise.... It doesn't make any sense and they'd literally be committing constant suicide and die off within hours in game.

If you have further questions you can talk to me in SF after I get back.


Edit:

Oh, by the way, here's a few things I forgot to mention.

  • The Mass is weak to heat, not just fire. Fire is not the only thing that's hot. There are many things that would be much more effective than just fire.
  • In order to survive the intense heat generated by entering a planet's atmosphere (or by being hit with heat weapons), the Mass can form a type of "heat shield" using... itself. It cannibalizes materials from its own cells to form nonconducting plates.
  • The Mass can go dormant and consume minimal levels of energy. Its "probes" that orbit Mass-controlled planets and keep a constant watch use solar energy to power themselves, for the most part, and don't require a whole lot of energy or nutrients. They don't last forever, a few years at most.
  • The Mass is an intelligent life form. If that wasn't obvious before, I am stating it now.


Last edited by Munroe on Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TheGunrunner
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:14 pm

Ok, well since we're FINALLY talking about this thing...
The Mass is op, I'm sorry but it is. It can beat any race here and can even stand up to gm races. It's apparent one weakness cannot be used most of the time because this is a space rp. In other words, it HAS no weakness.

Quote :
I don't see why this needs to be clarified. If you want to know what the Mass is, you'll have to study it ICly.

You have an ooc section. Put it in.

Quote :
There's no "official" explanation for how psychic abilities work. I've assumed it's some sort of energy that operates under slightly different rules, and can be manipulated by those who are sensitive to it, i.e. psychics. This energy could penetrate most matter, interact with people's brain chemistry, and more noticeably affect other psychics. It's also universal, meaning that psychics of all races use the same type of psychic energy.

No official explanation because studies have shown it doesn't exist in the slightest. Oh that's right, there are no psychic capabilities at all. One last time: Psychic abilities -->DO NOT EXIST<--. "This is psy-fi though, so why not?" Sure, but explain the extent and in theory how you're doing it.

Quote :
I've spent a very long time thinking about the question of rapid, directed mutation and I can tell you this. It's a rather messy explanation but it does make some sense.

Please explain.

Quote :
As for the rad-resistance, say hello to this guy, considered to be the most rad-resistant microorganism in the world. Wildlife on the planet Bihbulba would have to have cells with this capability otherwise it would be a barren wasteland instead of a lush jungle.

So you're Deinococcus radiodurans? Well, ok then.

Quote :
Energy: Tech 2
The Mass can mimic the function of many technological devices by forming itself into specialized structures. Among other things, it is capable of processing solar, geothermal, Yirridium, fossil fuel, fission, and fusion power.

...How?

You have three planets, took over The Sultanate of Zaa'nabar, can do the same to the Zeadrax, can make massive ships for free, (again) are immune to the one definate weakness you gave (Fire) as you are in space and I believe one of your average ships easily took out a flagship.

Also, on an ending note, if fire is your one weakness then how are explosions like mosquito bites to you? They're literally balls of fire.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:40 pm

Marauder wrote:
How is the microorganism psychic and mutate at a whim? It would need some centralized intelligence to do this so suddenly to survive extreme radiation. There is no microorganism that can survive radiation, macro organisms can't even survive radiation, they can only be resistant because of their size and multitude of cells. Heavy radiation works like a shotgun slamming through the DNA, now you can deflect some of it, but if theres a lot of it, the cells will not be able to stop the radiation slamming through and hurting the DNA strands. Macro organisms have much more defense because they have a central conscious working together to stop the radiation, the microorganism has self preservation.

Munroe wrote:
I've spent a very long time thinking about the question of rapid, directed mutation and I can tell you this. It's a rather messy explanation but it does make some sense. Once again though, you'll have to study the Mass to find out.
As for the rad-resistance, say hello to this guy, considered to be the most rad-resistant microorganism in the world. Wildlife on the planet Bihbulba would have to have cells with this capability otherwise it would be a barren wasteland instead of a lush jungle.

TheGunrunner wrote:
So you're Deinococcus radiodurans? Well, OK then.
Environmental resistance
There is a whole class of microorganisms that can survive almost any conditions. They are Extremophiles, the first organisms on earth. They are perhaps the easiest to evolve from as it is the starting point of life. Extremophiles also start communities if it is, say, burned down or some natural disaster makes a stretch of land desolate. This is Ecological succession, so the mass having abilities to survive radiation is fine.

Also some multi-cellular organisms exhibit environmental resistance traits, such as the Tardigrade.
Energy
But most Extremophiles cannot perform aerobic respiration, and when they can, they need to enter a state of "hibernation" to wait out the toxins/conditions. Without aerobic respiration, the mass won't have the energy to do more than sit there, not create massive ships that can fire lasers. Any glycolysis that is undergone without Aerobic respiration has a byproduct that is poisonous to anything that can't perform aerobic respiration. It's just alcohol and lactic acid to those of us that can do it.

But this is Sci-Fi, Let's say they can do aerobic respiration to get more bang for their buck and don't have to "hibernate". How would it covert energy from fission, let alone Fusion. The process that organisms go through to get energy makes it slowly. If it goes too quick, the energy is used up for heat, not life.
If the mass uses aerobic Respiration, then it needs oxygen or some other Hydrogen acceptor of an aggressive nature, Oxygen is ideal but Sulfur, Florine, Chlorine ,and Bromine will do. Anything less aggressive than oxygen will make it poisonous if oxygen is in the environment. That leaves Florine as the only safe possibility, but that makes it easy to just blow you up because of Florine's aggressiveness (THE MOST AGGRESSIVE ELEMENT).

I suggest using Florine since the mass is so weak to fire and make the mass capable of oxygen breathing, albeit slightly sluggish when doing so.

Fusion and Fission

The thing I can't figure a way around is the use of fusion and fission. There is no way to slowly use them, life needs a slow energy reaction. That is where sugar comes into play. Chemo-synthetic, Geothermal, and Photosynthetic production can all use solar or planetary energy to bind CO2 and H20 into sugar, They are just preludes to glycolysis and therefore respiration.

Fission breaks atoms apart into smaller elements, releasing massive energy. This is straight up heat, how can this be turned into chemical energy? Fusion is even more extreme by fusing 2 atoms together to make a larger atom. This has nearly no biological application other than keeping the sun alive and therefore making photosynthesis possible.

I'm not going to say anything about psychic abilities since other races here use it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:54 pm

I know that I have flaws in the Aturor, and maybe someone thinks there are flaws here. But I will ask this...

Who is going to be the "bad guy?"

Who are you going to fight? How long can you fight pirates and mercenaries in small time events for backwater planets you eventually secede to share with some inferior species?

Are we willing to accept flaws for the sake of fun?

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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:12 pm

How do hyperdrives work, exactly? How can interstellar communication be carried out when the fastest waves can only travel at light speed? How can energy or light be used to form a solid barrier? How does an artificial intelligence work? How about weaponry? Can anyone explain exactly how their empire's weapons function on space ships or in atmosphere? What about Yirridium? What's that, exactly? Is it a molecule, or some new element? How are deep space stations constructed?

These are just a few of the questions that could be asked about any of your empires. The reason this is called "science fiction," and not just "science," is that element of uncertainty. We don't know how a lot of this stuff works or how it could even be possible. We just accept it because that's simply how it is. I like a little logic in my science fiction, as do we all. But there doesn't have to be a 100% factually accurate explanation for everything. That's not possible.

TheGunrunner wrote:
You have three planets,

Most empires have at least 2. I just lost one to Gambit.

TheGunrunner wrote:
took over The Sultanate of Zaa'nabar,

Anyone could've done that.

TheGunrunner wrote:
can do the same to the Zeadrax,

I can? You have some real confidence in my abilities as a Dominion player.

TheGunrunner wrote:
can make massive ships for free,

Uh, no. I used resources in the form of absorbed life forms to construct all of my ships. My ships and structures can break themselves apart, but this doesn't count as making new ships.

TheGunrunner wrote:
are immune to the one definate weakness you gave (Fire)

Where did I say it was immune to fire? Fire is actually quite effective against it.

TheGunrunner wrote:
I believe one of your average ships easily took out a flagship.

The Amundi flagship had inferior technology and defenses, and was hindered by an EMP. The Azraelas flagship rammed straight into mine and fired its main gun at full power. It destroyed itself, basically.

TheGunrunner wrote:
Also, on an ending note, if fire is your one weakness then how are explosions like mosquito bites to you? They're literally balls of fire.

Armor.

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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:45 pm

I'm sure it is physically possible to use fusion and fission in a complicated manner to change it into usable energy anyway. Plus, the only person with any real power here approves it, the mass is probably gonna stay as it is.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:47 pm

If you still think this is unfair, I will relinquish this empire and focus on my other one.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:51 pm

We need an antagonist, you removing your empire is your choice. Nobody (Gambit excluded) can force you to remove it. Most of this works, nobody is going to have a perfect science fiction space fairing race.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:58 pm

Some things are near impossible to prove for we have gaps in knowledge, and for those gaps we are allowed to use our creative and artistic liberties.

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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:59 pm

Frankly, the Mass is fine. It had a massive fear factor, and truly seemed impossible to defeat. However, Mun's roleplay completely eviscerated that idea, and his skills as a player shine beyond appearances.

He is more than capable of handling the Mass, and is doing so quite well.

Still, to take on that many races and not be defeated at this point, is rather confusing. Without a doubt there is some powerplay in there, but i'm not going to complain too much.

I don't care for exact sciences, especially if they inhibit gameplay. To answer Gambit, there doesn't have to be an enemy straight out. Dominion is completely free-form, and it evolves in many ways without the need of a single driving force. Through events, anything can happen, and the interactions between players can distinguish between "good and bad". The Axis didn't believe they were doing wrong, and neither did the Allies. Everything is different in others' perspectives, and having a typical "bad guy" doesn't improve a roleplay.

And for Mun, it's up to you how you approach the Mass. I never had such a problem with them existing, but only their clear lack of a decent storyline or driving goal and details besides spreading. Dominion is about developing relationships, engaging in trade and diplomacy, advancing your race's goals, engaging in war, and exploring. By having a savage space plague, you're limiting yourself to war encounters. If that's what you want, so be it. If not, then you can simply let the battle on Bihbulba unfold, and redirect your focus to your new race and allow your race to slowly disappear or be destroyed depending on what happens or whatever.

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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:16 pm

Venom OPS wrote:
Still, to take on that many races and not be defeated at this point, is rather confusing. Without a doubt there is some powerplay in there, but i'm not going to complain too much.

My fleet, which was both sizable and advanced, was destroyed almost to the last ship. Though I managed to get on Bihbulba's surface and deal some serious damage, it wasn't without great loss.

As for my race's future, I don't plan for the Mass to survive. Hell, I just offered to relinquish it. It's a doomed species. The other races will systematically exterminate it, and give it no place to go to spread and make more of itself.

Venom OPS wrote:
And for Mun, it's up to you how you approach the Mass. I never had such a problem with them existing, but only their clear lack of a decent storyline or driving goal and details besides spreading. Dominion is about developing relationships, engaging in trade and diplomacy, advancing your race's goals, engaging in war, and exploring. By having a savage space plague, you're limiting yourself to war encounters. If that's what you want, so be it. If not, then you can simply let the battle on Bihbulba unfold, and redirect your focus to your new race and allow your race to slowly disappear or be destroyed depending on what happens or whatever.

I would agree. I am a bit tired of just going around trying to kill everything. Like you said, it's not what Dominion is really about. That's why I made another empire geared more towards peace, and just interaction, really.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:54 am

Munroe and powerplay are two words that don't work well in the same sentence.
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:18 pm

and you all laughed at me when I used super-heated slugs

I'LL SHOW YOU ALL
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PostSubject: Re: The Mass   Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:23 pm

Nevermind, then
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