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Johnny
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PostSubject: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 2:48 am





The Traditionalist

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"Even at the price of my physical bonds, my life, and my eternal soul; the traitorous Kazuth will face retribution."



Quote :

Alles ist vorbereitet, Söhn von Occitan

Name
Hanz Leopold Marder

Gender
Male

Race
Goliath , (Half-human/Half-giant)

Age
38

Birthplace
Vinberg

Titles
The armoured, The Executioner, of the Old Ways, Golemslayer, (self-proclaimed) Ritterbrüder



Quote :

Der Krieg brachte anstatt Frieden nur Demütigung, Elend und tiefe Abneigung

Hair Colour
Blonde

Eye Colour
Steel grey

Skintone
Pale

Height
9' 4''

Weight
315 lbs.

Body Build
Heavy. Tall, muscular and well-shaped. The pride of his family

Distinguishing Features:
Burn scars upon most of his right shoulder, arm, back and both palms

Worship
Saint Stolz

Personality
Hanz is by any standard a quiet and calm individual. Though the bloodlust brought about by his ancestors tears at him in times of anger, stress and resentment; sheer iron will and a well-disciplined mind keeps his emotions in check. He holds a great respect towards authority, and the individual man in general. He is humble, kind and honourable at best. However, in his lasting quest for vengeance, he will often become reckless and allow his pride to pull him towards merciless and unfair conclusions. Such a vice cannot be denied over time.

Biography:
 

Quote :
Armour

[Goliath Full-plate]
***
A set of heavy armour, designed to be worn by Goliaths. It's sloped, thick plates allow for protection against ranged weaponry and slashing/piercing attacks. Blunt weapons or magic is what's effective against this sort of fearsome protection


Armament

[Goliath Heavy Claymore]
***
A powerful weapon of ancient times. A massive, heavy and sturdy claymore crafted for Goliath usage. Roughly the size of an adult man, and weighing about the same, this heavy weapon would cleave through most material by sheer force and pressure. Enemies of this blade would not be cut, but would rather simply explode from the crushing momentum of the hit and coat the area in a flow of guts and blood.

Quote :
Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer
Pros

§ As a Goliath, Hanz holds the racial benefits of unparalleled strength, endurance, vitality and a natural resistance to poisons
§ Years of honing his mind and body in the ways of the Ritterbrüder has left him in a state of balance between burning hatred and iron discipline
§ Hanz has a keen sense of scenting and hearing. A profit for any crusader on the hunt for savages


Cons

§ Requires ample sustenance to remain in strength and regeneration. The summer and fall seasons apply additional requirements as the body has to endure the heat and prepare for the coming of winter
§ Incapable of swimming, and holds a lasting fear for anything deeper than a pond as he is incapable of fighting beneath the sea
§ Terrible nightvision makes it hard for Hanz to see in the looming darkness without light to aid him
§ His burning hatred for the Kazuth race, which he believes to be traitors and scum for rebelling against the Empire all those years ago, will sometimes cause him to jump into sudden conclusions
§ Stands severely out from a crowd, appearing as a gargantuan siege engine from ancient times


Last edited by Johnny on Fri May 25, 2012 12:53 am; edited 5 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 3:01 am

I can't cyber with this.
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Blitz
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 3:20 am

i can.

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Mördekaiser

huehueheuhuehue brazil es numer une
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 4:24 am

The lore is absolutely flawless, and is an incredibly impressive page. A well and truly solid grasp on everything we wrote about Occitan after the fall of the Empire. Damn, sir.

I want to hear community opinions on this, however.
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Hyperiant
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 5:54 am

Read through it. He just seems too powerful, and I don't like handing this sort of power to characters that are unstable. He hates Kazuth, but restrains himself from slaughtering them? He has bloodlust, but he holds it back? Why? What's keeping him from killing them all? There's conflicting information in this, and it says little about what he'd actually do when faced with his learned enemy. Since he was born in Vinberg, culture would dictate he'd naturally hate Kazuth, regardless of whatever books he read previously. His hate would've already been there, most likely.

All too easily it seems that the character would go Hanz Smash and start bashing in people's skulls; especially those who couldn't do a thing about it. He's powerful enough to take on the entire Watch and win. I'm leaning towards a reject here, but my decision is hardly final yet.
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Munroe
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 6:35 am

His armor makes no sense. Golems are not hollow, animated suits of armor. Why would they be? If there's nothing inside a golem's body, making it hollow just makes it weaker and more vulnerable to blunt force attacks.

Armor aside, this guy's fucking powerful. He claymore'd a golem to death by himself, which is no small feat, especially considering that your own description of the golem states it's almost impervious to physical attacks. That means both this guy and his sword are incredibly strong, even without the armor. With the armor, he's a massive tank that's pretty much immune to anything current generation characters can dish out.

And to be blunt, I don't see the point of this character. I might consider making him into a special character given his power, but what RP could he generate? It seems to me like he'd just walk around town for a while before inevitably going berserk and taking a bunch of people down with him. In fact, he could probably kill the entire population of Surna.

So, in conclusion, I can't accept this in its current state. I'd recommend getting rid of the armor and maybe toning down his "berserker" personality. And go into more detail about that sword's capabilities?

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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 6:49 am

Hyperiant wrote:
Read through it. He just seems too powerful, and I don't like handing this sort of power to characters that are unstable. He hates Kazuth, but restrains himself from slaughtering them? He has bloodlust, but he holds it back? Why? What's keeping him from killing them all? There's conflicting information in this, and it says little about what he'd actually do when faced with his learned enemy. Since he was born in Vinberg, culture would dictate he'd naturally hate Kazuth, regardless of whatever books he read previously. His hate would've already been there, most likely.

All too easily it seems that the character would go Hanz Smash and start bashing in people's skulls; especially those who couldn't do a thing about it. He's powerful enough to take on the entire Watch and win. I'm leaning towards a reject here, but my decision is hardly final yet.


oh no don't touch the special little snowflake kitty!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 10:01 am

This char is op the way it is, especially with the Armour
I agree with Munroe on his statement

We're not trying to play a game of Exalted here,

DENY


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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 10:47 am

Actually, no. I will not explain myself.

Ladies, please

With great power comes even greater responsibility. This is practically rule numo uno. Most of you know me, and many of you have seen me hold similar power before. I am fully capable of taking responsibility of this medieval character. I put effort into his story, and gave him the personality of the restricted knight of vengeance.

What this implies is that, though physically powerful and fueled with burning rage from a mix of books read in his youth as well as the barbaric giant blood that courses through his veins, he restricts himself. This is a person, whom holds untold anger within him, yet will not release it. He holds a disciplined mind, and is silent in general.

Why silent? Because if you read through his background, you'll see that there was a certain moment in his life where everything went down the shitter. This left his body scarred, his mind hardened and his heart locked away. This is a character that will develop himself through acceptance, realizing his own flaws, and grow as a social individual.

Quote :
He just seems too powerful

My character having power isn't an issue. The sword acts as I wield it. Power only becomes a problem when you abuse it. ..fucking philosophical bullshit

Quote :
He hates Kazuth, but restrains himself from slaughtering them? He has bloodlust, but he holds it back? Why?

The whole point of my idea for this character is that he will constantly be in an internal struggle when faced with A) a Kazuth (or generally an individual in which sets off hatred in him) or B) aggrovative situations. He is a half-giant that wishes to become a disciplined knight. He wishes to call himself a Ritterbruder and restore the Empire. He knows that he cannot restore it by slaughtering all in sight - such an action would simply cause his swift demise.

Quote :
Since he was born in Vinberg, culture would dictate he'd naturally hate Kazuth, regardless of whatever books he read previously. His hate would've already been there, most likely.

I am from Norway, yet I don't rape women and plunder British ports with a skullcap on my head. Hanz was born in Vinberg, yes, but his family were secluded, traditional blacksmiths. They lived on the outskirts of town and had little contact with the citizenry. Mayhaps they knew a few customers whom wanted LARP armour pieces from the old ages. There is a reason as to why I mention "cabin" in the story when referring to their home, rather than "house".

Quote :
All too easily it seems that the character would go Hanz Smash and start bashing in people's skulls

People with anger issues are fully capable of living in modern society without murdering someone. Especially a would-be knight whose years has given him time to attempt to control his outbursts.

Quote :
His armor makes no sense. Golems are not hollow, animated suits of armor

Our perception of Golems are different. I believe Golems to be hollow suits of armour, given life by being filled with magical essence, enchantments and/or a living soul. Of course, they'd be less enduring, but would be more mobile and combat effective, rather than hulking around as giant slobs of material. Besides, if a Golem was filled from the inside with - as an example: Steel; how would the Golem be able to move? It would basically be a statue. Steel isn't liquid. It is a solid metal that the armour's joints would not be able to move through, immobilizing it. In the end, a hollow Golem is more practical and believable.

And don't dare to imply machinery or clockwork, because that would make it an Automaton, not a Golem.

Quote :
I don't see the point of this character.

I do. He's a support character meant for social interaction and as aid in battles such as event sieges or as a mentor in killing powerful monsters that we all know will appear at some point in the story. I will further my character's personality and growth in general, by interacting with others. He's not meant to fight directly, but rather as an assistant on the sidelines.

This is not some barbaric mass-murderer from hell we are discussing. In fact, I would say that Hanz has more sense of moral ethics and honour in him than most people of this era of gunpowder. He's a good guy who wants to be a knight and restore an Empire that he's read about in books, but with anger issues that he's trying to tone down through iron-willed discipline and a vendetta towards the Kazuth for causing the "demise" of his nation.

Seriously, he's a tall guy in a suit of old heavy armour. Stab him in the dick when he's asleep. It's not like he has a health-bar.

I'm not saying;

"I am responsible, give me a character of power." I'm saying "It will work out just fine, or so ban me."

But hey, if it doesn't work out, I'll just go make a new Tzakuto.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:03 am

Johnny wrote:
ineffective but lengthy and well-thought-out rationalization

Johnny wrote:
But hey, if it doesn't work out, I'll just go make a new Tzakuto.


Now that that's out of the way...

"Let me do it and ban me if it doesn't work" is not a good way to handle things. It is not. That may be how things worked in old Olden (and nobody really got banned for it anyway) but it isn't how it works anymore. At least it shouldn't be.

You say the character has self-control, but...the character swore themselves to vengeance. Really, it isn't a matter of self-control preventing him from killing, because self-control only works if you actually don't want to do something. This guy swore vengeance upon Kazuth as a race. It's obvious he wants to kill. And all of his abilities make this all too easy. You've given no real reason to let us use the character other than "trust me, it'll be fine" but that doesn't have a track record of success. The fact that you've held power in the past has little importance here, especially when I disagree with how you used it. Previously, you were in charge of roleplaying a god, and you really only used it to be a villain and cyber. Surna has enough villains. We don't need another aspiring demigod walking around, especially not a mentally unstable one.

In light of this, I deny the application. But keep in mind that I've still got an open mind for a different character.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:13 am

Quote :
roleplaying a god, and you really only used it to be a villain

He was playing the god of, you know.

Death, Lies and Deception.

I'm going ahead and giving this character my accept because I truthfully believe Johnny can develop a character and the limitations on this page aren't doing it justice. He may be a strong individual, but he's not chaotic evil, he's not senseless - sure, he'll be prone to fits of bezerker rage but so is Taric. And Taric killed around 20 people, yet we don't stop Psyche from playing him.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:17 am

Zaku wrote:
Taric killed around 20 people, yet we don't stop Psyche from playing him.
Maybe.

But I would if I could.

Zaku wrote:
He was playing the god of, you know.

Death, Lies and Deception.
He was too involved in everyday affairs. He was an actual tangible villain, whereas all the other gods just sort of existed somewhere and never stepped in to do anything. You'd think at least one of them would've gotten jealous of his attention or defensive of their followers.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:18 am

Hyperiant wrote:
Zaku wrote:
Taric killed around 20 people, yet we don't stop Psyche from playing him.
Maybe.

But I would if I could.

Zaku wrote:
He was playing the god of, you know.

Death, Lies and Deception.
He was too involved in everyday affairs. He was an actual tangible villain, whereas all the other gods just sort of existed somewhere and never stepped in to do anything. You'd think at least one of them would've gotten jealous of his attention or defensive of their followers.

Kossuth regularly drank in the bar at one point.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:19 am

I enjoy how you make it seem like I was raping people's characters. Which wasn't the case, any RP that happened was always consensual on both parties. You make it seem as if I was destroying other characters, even though we've never roleplayed together.

I will tone down Hanz to a more playable level, but will not change my character. I've put effort into this fucker.


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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:38 am

I'm sensing a lot of bias in this thread.


Zaku wrote:
He'll be prone to fits of bezerker rage but so is Taric. And Taric killed around 20 people, yet we don't stop Psyche from playing him.

Taric is not as powerful as this character, and that didn't stop him from killing 20 people. So imagine this guy on a rampage. Also, Taric didn't start out this way, it was developed over time and caused him to pretty much remove himself from society. In no way is Taric exactly the same as this.

Quote :
With great power comes even greater responsibility. This is practically rule numo uno. Most of you know me, and many of you have seen me hold similar power before. I am fully capable of taking responsibility of this medieval character. I put effort into his story, and gave him the personality of the restricted knight of vengeance.

Quote :
I'm not saying "I am responsible, give me a character of power."

It kind of looks like you did.

Quote :
He's a support character meant for social interaction

Right now he's silent and you expect him to somehow grow as a social individual. Who is this armored giant going to talk to? He's just going to be completely out of place among the common folk.

Quote :
and as aid in battles such as event sieges or as a mentor in killing powerful monsters that we all know will appear at some point in the story.

That's a fair point, actually. Our characters do seem a tad outmatched by some of the evil monsters walking around. But a character can't be accepted just for this reason.

Quote :
Our perception of Golems are different. I believe Golems to be hollow suits of armour, given life by being filled with magical essence, enchantments and/or a living soul. Of course, they'd be less enduring, but would be more mobile and combat effective, rather than hulking around as giant slabs of material. Besides, if a Golem was filled from the inside with - as an example: Steel; how would the Golem be able to move? It would basically be a statue. Steel isn't liquid. It is a solid metal that the armour's joints would not be able to move through, immobilizing it. In the end, a hollow Golem is more practical and believable.

I suppose this is a matter of opinion, but I must point out a flaw in your logic. You assume that "solid" means "rigid", like a statue, and that the only way a golem could even move is if it were hollow. But joints can be made linking two solid parts together, so hollowness is still an unnecessary trait. If it's mobility you need, simply use lighter materials, or, you know, magic, to make it go faster.

Quote :
This is not some barbaric mass-murderer from hell we are discussing. In fact, I would say that Hanz has more sense of moral ethics and honour in him than most people of this era of gunpowder. He's a good guy who wants to be a knight and restore an Empire that he's read about in books, but with anger issues that he's trying to tone down through iron-willed discipline and a vendetta towards the Kazuth for causing the "demise" of his nation.

Also a matter of opinion. I look at this and see a barely-restrained psychopath. I don't think restraint = morality.

There's also another issue that hasn't been addressed. What is he doing in Surna? He wants to rebuild the Occitanian Empire and seek vengeance on Kazuth, so shouldn't he be in Occitan?

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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:47 am

If you read the last bit of the background, you'd see that he travels eastward to carve his own path. Restoring the Empire and exacting revenge isn't something he can do right away. He requires wisdom, and experience. Consider it a sort of, uh ..

"Sightseeing." To see the world, and experience it. Perhaps even finding followers or individuals whom share his vision.

Removed the restraining, as having anger issues related to his painful past and barbaric hill-giant blood means OP and bad character development.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 11:53 am

Munroe wrote:
I'm sensing a lot of bias in this thread.
Sorry. He was basically asking "judge this character based on the fact that I'm trustworthy, not with a clean slate and an objective view of the character."

I suppose that wasn't fair. But even with a clean slate, I would trust no-one but an administrator with this sort of character. No new or returning player should get this kind of power.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 12:14 pm

Alright, I'm super new but I'm going to offer my input anyway. This is a lot of power packed into a single character. All I had to do was look at the word 'goliath' and I pretty much knew what to expect. I admire the extensive amount of work you put into this character, but I know from experience the corrupting influence of this sort of power. I pride myself on my tendency to play to lose. I understand that winning isn't the point of roleplay. But once I had a particularly powerful character, on another server. I generally kept the power to myself, but when someone was ticking me off, or when I was in an important battle, I broke out the badass. It's practically sub-conscious. If one has power, they are more than likely to use it for personal gain.

So for me it's a deny. But, again, I applaud your effort. Plus the application is very pretty.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 12:19 pm

Just bring in the heavy artillery, Johnny. ;)

That or just slap on 'SPECIAL CHARACTER' that's what the admins do anyway!
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 1:00 pm

I request that Marder becomes a special character for future events.

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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 1:34 pm

Johnny wrote:
I request that Marder becomes a special character for future events.


I don't support this notion, nor character.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Thu May 24, 2012 5:40 pm

Alright, a few things.

One, we've already got a full fledged giant in town. Her name is Robyn Kluge, and apparently Hanz, as a half-giant, is only four inches shorter than Robyn. That's possible, but I wanted to bring that to your attention.

Second, when I was checking the giants lore, I came across this.
Blitz wrote:
Adult male -- 10-11 feet tall. 600-700 pounds. Contrary to belief, not inherently aggressive by nature.

This would mean that Hanz wouldn't have any of the inherent racial blood lust described on this page. I suppose his father could have done it with one of the monstrous giants, as described here. The best choice seems to be Ogres. I would be fine with Hanz being a half-ogre, as it would fulfill the blood lust characteristic.

Now, I'm very, very glad you dropped the golem armor that was, by what I heard, night-impervious to both magic and physical damage. But I'd like to ask where he received tailor-made, high quality armor like what he has now. His Blacksmith father? The same goes for his blade.

Now, I don't see anywhere in here about Hanz being taught to fight. Which I like. If you're going to have incredible strength, significant size, stature, and armor, I'd really like Hanz to be a novice at fighting.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Fri May 25, 2012 12:49 am

This. This is what I like. Constructive criticism rather than biast opinions and arguments of power abuse.

I will adjust Marder to fit the troll lore, and think of something else than anger for character development.

Originally, Marder was to have gained his armour and sword from his traditionalist blacksmith family. His father, to be precise. Since Occitanians are known for their excellent craftmanship. We could go back to that and say that both his armament and protective gear came from home.

Pat was the first to see that Hanz had literally no fighting experience, (besides the golem, which was nulled) leaving him an inexperienced and reckless fool in combat whose prone to rely on his strength. Character development.


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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Fri May 25, 2012 1:23 am

Mun wrote:
Our characters do seem a tad outmatched by some of the evil monsters walking around. But a character can't be accepted just for this reason.

Sounds like just the kind of concept to approve as a special character.

And all his past would just make for quite interesting situations when the major event shit goes down. Honestly, I'm leaning towards an accept.
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PostSubject: Re: Hanz Marder   Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:25 am

Moved to denied for the following reasons:
1. Appears to be an attempt to stir up drama.
2. Seems over-powered.
3. Johnny is no longer here.
4. Lack of activity in this thread.

Surna has enough problems without a half-ogre, extremist Occitanian in full-plate walking around. Not to mention the fact that Occitan and its ideology is more of an OOC response than a legitimate nation in Olden's lore. I really don't feel like arguing this any more.

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